For the record Dan, that was Elvis calling you ignorant.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AuntyM:

The voters would never react adversly enough to the truth, so they have to make up lies.--AM

I was making reference to John O'neill--what lies are you suggesting he made up?
What are you basing that assertion on?
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Such good patriots like O'Neil should surely condemn Bush's lack of credible excuse for the gap in his weak service record---AM

Bush may have never served in Vietnam, but he never went before the nation and said that the men who did were a bunch of, "RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS" like Hanoi John did either. That's why Kerry can only get a small handfull of the over two million of men who served there to stand behind him. Oddly enough, that small handfull of men have been compensated for their vocal support.

Like deep throat said, "follow the money."

Money, so they say---is the root of all..............

..............I think I need a Lear Jet

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DanS,

If you really disagree with this war and want our troops to come home--Ralph Nader is the ONLY candidate running who has consistantly said we should have never invaded Iraq and removed Saddam's regime, and if elected promisses to withdraw the troops immediately.

BTW--The next time you're out in a boat that's stalled and or capsizing and the US Coast Guard comes to your rescue--be sure to thank the 'Draft Dodger' that enlisted in the 'Guard during the Vietnam era that probably trained the younger Guardemen that are saving your life.

You're right; Bush "never went before the nation and said that the men who did were a bunch of, RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS." Instead he chose to voice his opinion through actions - being much stronger than words.

And what did he say? He said, "I'm too good to be dieing for my country. Hell, let them other less fortunate fellars do all that dieing and stuff. I got me some beer to drink and coke to snort."

Doesn't change the fact: Kerry was there. Bush was not. Both by conscious decision.

By the way, did Kerry say that all the men that fought in Vietnam were guilty of rape and murder? Or did he merely mention those were but a few of the atrocities experienced there? Can you unequivocally state that he lied about rape and murder happening during the war?

So, to recap, we have a guy that used his personal and family connections to avoid combat, thus forcing someone else to go in his stead. The guy can't even provide documentation to prove beyond doubt that he even completed the service he signed up forto avoid combat. He is the guy you claim to represent good.

The other guy went to combat of his own volition, even volunteered for ultra-hazardous duty. He didn't like what he saw or experienced. He comes home and uses his American rights to help convince policy makers that the war was killing fellow Americans needlessly. By stopping the war, thousands of Americans were spared the horror of war and death. This is the guy you claim represents bad.



Weird value system.

This just added:
By the way, go do a real quick Google using the following: coast guard vietnam

You'll love what you find.

Hey AuntyM,

Did you see or read the entire interview that Gen. Franks gave Hannity?

You and or Slate did a pretty good cut and past job of paraphrasing Gen. Frank's words--since you're googling skills are unparralled---you should provide the interview in it's ENTIRETY.

Then you and everyone else who's interested can read where Gen. Franks says that even though we haven't found WMD's yet--he still believes invading Iraq and removing Saddam and his regime was the RIGHT thing to do. When it comes to fighting terrorists Gen. Franks also said that we have two choices, we can either A.) fight them over there or B.) fight them over here

DanS,
If it where my candidates only claim to fame and I found out he was misrepresenting it I would not vote. Specifcally if the other candidates where that repugnant to me.


"things Kerry said are undeniable,"

Nice that all the context was removed to make an invalid point. Franks and others have comented on this before. To deny that atrocities did not occur in Vietnam is silly. Of course they did. But Kerry's assertion that they where the policy of the US and that he wittnessed them are wrong. It was minority of people as usual. Did command turn thier heads? I am sure they did based on what I have read. Nothing that did not happen in other wars or that will not happen in future wars. The difference is the left intends to uncover it 35 years later to use it as an excuse for their candidate.

Franks also support s the War, comdems the Un and Supports Bush. or is it a case of picking and choosing positions to try and make a point?

They sure are out of context. He was making a comment about Kerrys comments on war atrocities. He was not commenting on if Kerry was justified to call it a unjust, amoral and illegal war for 35 years. Then to use his service in an unjust,Amoral and illegal war as the drumbeat for his presidential bid.

I was gonna bring up Bush's other claims to fame...........but there aren't any.

I am not implying that he did it's real clear. Franks was discussing the fact that he thought war atrocities did in fact occur and that Kerry was justified in saying such. There is no context in the discussion about franks views on Kerry flip flopping or Kerry switch for Anti war to pounding his own ddrum re his actions in the war. Franks is merely commenting on one topic Re; the vietnam war. it's very Micahel Moorish to pull it out of context and insert it into a debate about wheather or not kerry's actions can be defended then vs. now. Being a natural born American citizen qualifies one to be president , Franks is playing a game and few are bright enough to catch it. He supports conservative values clearly.

Then the growth of the Federal Government, the deficit spending, and the tinkering with the Constitution must be driving him nuts.
Unless he's one of those "neo-con" conservatives.

Oh, he's a witty one, that Franks. :rolleyes:

Get over yourself.

yes he is GH here is a piece that shows how much so. "

Franks Undecided on Presidential Vote

Monday, August 09, 2004


WASHINGTON — Retired Gen. Tommy Franks, producer of the early military successes in Afghanistan (search) and Iraq (search), said Sunday that criticism of John Kerry's (search) war record is political hyperbole and Kerry is "absolutely" qualified to be commander in chief.

A year into retirement, Franks also said he has not decided whether to endorse President Bush (search) for re-election. "I don't know yet. I'm leaning in that direction," he said on a Sunday morning news show.

Franks, whose hometown is Midland, Texas — where the president and first lady Laura Bush grew up — has been making television appearances in recent days to publicize his just-published memoirs, "American Soldier."

"Do you think Senator Kerry is qualified to be commander in chief?" Franks was asked.

"Absolutely!" he said.

But like the criticism of Kerry, the retired general said the Democratic nominee's recent harsh words about the war plan Franks created in Afghanistan was motivated by politics and his failure to capture Al Qaeda (search) network leader Usama bin Laden.

"I think a presidential election year is a marvelous thing. I think Senator Kerry is a patriot. And I think what ... what we're doing is, we're seeing an attempt to sort of draw the lines between the two parties in this country. And I wouldn't have it any other way," Franks said.

The characterization of Kerry as a coward and liar who did not earn the medals awarded him for his Vietnam service came in a television ad sponsored by a group that fashions calls itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search). Kerry was skipper of one of the small Mekong River boats and received the Silver Star and Bronze Star for valor and three Purple Hearts for wounds.

"I really work hard to stay away from hyperbole," Franks said. "People ask me all the time about 'Fahrenheit 9/11' and then others will ask me about some equally vitriolic view at the end of the continuum on the conservative side."

"I believe that life really is someplace between the two," Franks said, "and so I am not a fan of hyperbole, whether it is for or against Senator Kerry or George W. Bush."

"Fahrenheit 9/11" is the anti-Bush film by documentary filmmaker Michael Moore.

Franks said he also has not decided whether he would want to speak at the Republican National Convention.

"I'm a fiercely independent kind of guy and rather proud of it," Franks said.

What game are you talk'n about TK, like getting a high cabinet position....? Who in the political military sphere isn't playing that game....

Based on Bush's poor poll #'s, there's probably a lot of folks in that sphere that are worried about their next job!

I'd say your thread is pretty well done TK!

The only ones that believe this junk are the desparate, predictable neocons who can't help themselves but to tear down their opponent.

Originally posted by AuntyM:

....John O'Neill has had an agenda against Kerry BECAUSE Kerry told the truth and did what his conscience dictated when he testified before Congress. --AM

Again I ask you, what are you basing your assertion that, "Kerry told the truth" on?
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Todays voters won't condemn Kerry for his testimony---AM

Alot of those Vietnam vet's (many of whom are registered voters) that were called, "RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS" will.
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Like I said, not one of these characters has challenged Kerry's record where it really mattered. With the US Navy.--AM

You haven't read Unfit for Command--the men who served with and around Kerry question both his actions as a Naval officer and the medals he received.

Ummmmmmm....the documented cases of rape and murder that took place in Vietnam??

Just taking a crazy guess.....

I had a good friend who served in Viet Nam and was on one of those PT boats. His stories were very similar to Apocolypse Now...heads on poles and belts of ears ...Remember the body count? Westmoreland and company. Every night on the news we saw the body counts...The officers would encourage proof of kills....By the way , my friend came back a very different and wierd person. Other friends never came back.

What I can't figure out is why Kerry volunteered to go. He must have known all this stuff was going on and most likely was against the policies involved before volunteering. Perhaps he went just to set things up for the protest after his 4 months of service???

Perhaps he thought draft dodgers were scumbags?

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Unfortunately GW didn't bring a color 8mm video camera with him to re-enact his service in the 'Guard for posterity.

Hopefully, the military may be able to find his service records for the small period of time in question--GW has offered to make them public.

Unfortunatly Lt. Kerry won't release his medical records for the two Purple Hearts that his fellow service men are calling into question.

It seems to me that if he (Kerry) is telling the truth and the multiple fellow service men are lying---then releasing the records about his Purple Hearts would clear up an awful lot.

When john boy signed up for swift boat duty the swift boats were doing recon and described as non-combat, but then shazam! shazam! suprise suprise they're mission had changed and it was too late for him to get out.

One guy can fly a jet fighter while the other guy can beach a tollycraft.

one guy can snort a rail of blow three feet long, the other guy served his country...voluntarily.